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January 2020 trip to Topeka, KS

They’re back! On January 9-13, Dr. Hillel Gray and a team of seven student research assistants will conduct field work in Topeka. The team will meet with a few Topeka residents from the LGBT and Jewish communities, while focusing primarily on interviews and observations at the controversial Westboro Baptist Church.

We anticipate interviewing two daughters of founder Fred Phelps, Sr., as well as members of three churchgoing families. Students will also observe a home Bible reading, the WBC’s emblematic street preaching, an evening get-together for singing hymns, and a Sunday worship service.

The schedule is organized thanks to Steve Drain, one of eight Elders who rotate preaching responsibilities at Westboro Baptist Church.

During the spring semester, several student researchers will be doing follow-up research on Westboro Baptists.

Observable shifts in our interactions with Westboro Baptists (draft)

For the August 2018 trip, I visited with 3 student research assistants from 2017 and 5 students who were new to the WBC-Topeka encounter. It was clear to those from 2017, including myself, that the Church was presenting a different look and feel than last summer. Indeed, it’s fair to say that a couple of Church members confirmed that their approach to us had shifted.

Our project aims to carry out a methodology that is adapted from known methods, but not heretofore applied to WBC, one of the most hated, provocative, and isolated religious groups. The methodology calls for us to:

  • Stick to the role of a critical-empathetic observer, in order to understand cognitively and emotionally their perspectives, attitudes, feelings, and idears.
  • Speak and engage with church members, and publicly, in a nonjudgmental manner. Refrain from any direct or implied condemnation or praise of the Church or its activities.
  • Be warm, friendly, attentive, respectful, and curious, as with any religious and ethnic group one might study.
  • Do more listening than telling. Be open-hearted and, in effect, open-minded.

Our rapport, relationship-building, and improved interactions with WBC may be indicated by the following:

  • WBC members appeared friendlier, more cooperative, less combative, hostile, or aggressive.
    • This was true of every church member in my rough age cohort. While Steve Drain expressed disdain for academia, he did so in perhaps a softened way. (Some pointed comments about Jews may have been intended to test or unsettle me, but there were far less than in the past.)
    • I hadn’t spoken before (except incidentally) with the younger generation interviewees. A few came across as distrustful or combative, but such behaviors mostly dissipated during our encounters.
    • This kinder conduct toward outsiders does fit with my article’s analysis of their picketing signs, with their heightened emphasis on scriptural charity, and (as I heard described) as a gentler or softened style in the Westboro Baptist Church.
    • Caveat: Interviewees were self-selected, not chosen randomly. Members who declined to be interviewed could be those more antagonistic to my project or more hostile to outsiders. Nonetheless, at a communal level, isn’t such self-selection (hostility avoidance) by individuals itself a form of cooperation and hospitality?
  • My recent article, front page of the Capital-Journal of Topeka, was favorably received and discussed with WBC. Even their criticisms were framed as minor. See RNS version.
    • Before the visit, Steve Drain cooperated with info and photos for the RNS article. This article (and social media posts) could have disposed WBC favorably to us.
  • Eight student research assistants helped create goodwill by assiduously following the protocol. They did not report any hostile or aggressive questioning or confrontations with any WBC members.
    • Our 2018 team built upon the 2017 work of five students, three of whom returned, though that 2017 group had reported hostility from WBC on a number of occasions.
  • Two collaborative projects were discussed:
    • With Tim, a co-authored article on (Jewish eschatology) and the Zionist movement;
    • With Margie, a co-authored article on the draft Principles of Harmful Speech and Nonviolence toward WBC.
    • Caveat: In 2011, I discussed their participating in demonstration interviews at Miami. I never proposed such collaboration because they never seemed so responsive and cooperative to me before. I may have been wary
  • Three families brought children (including minors) to interview. I had seen interest from families in 2010 but not in recent years.
    • A couple of minors were enthusiastic to speak with me. Family interviews: Shirley and 3 sons; Sam/Jen and 1 minor (another watched); Charles/Rachel and 5 children.
  • Interviewees discussed the project in neutral or favorable terms.
    • Several talked about their “interest” or “curiosity” in where I am going with this project, viewing the inquiry as academic (e.g., Tim, Charles, Steven H). We sensed a consistent and rather favorable narrative about me and the project.
    • Charles compared our inquiry favorably to media and other scholarly projects, which have a clear (and perhaps incompatible) end product (Charles).  Whereas the past trope was to portray my inquiry as the same as anyone’s and not memorable, this year a few interviewees treated our project as different than what they get from other outsiders.
    • In his sermon, there was Jon’s explicit positive reference and a double coding to the Miami team. He also said that a hymn was chosen for us.
    • Paulette said that Dr. Gray’s descriptive work is fair, though not necessarily accurate.
    • WBCers appear to trust me more, some said as much [check]. Nobody openly broached the possibility that I am a wicked or satanic threat, even if they still feel it.
  • There are numerous examples of new information shared with us, which is indirect evidence of trust and relationship-building.
    • Biographical info, including many incidents of harmful behavior toward them
    • Examples of open expression of feelings and experiences: Abigail, Becky P-D, Bethany, Brent (about Fred Sr.), Jen, Margie, Steve H, and possibly Tim.
    • WBC collected and destroyed a set of picketing signs that it no longer uses. I can now ask Steve Drain for this list, which could justify a follow-up to the article cited above.
  • More “social” interactions.
    • The interview with young women was fairly casual and free form.
    • Drains invited the project team to dinner. (Granted, I had not asked in the past.)
    • The Bible reading invitation was not offered last year. (At Ben & Mara’s in 2016.)
    • Jon invited students to swim in the pool.
    • WBC invited us to the church service, where a few people interacted with us.
    • They also invited us ad hoc to their group singing.
    • Shirley lent my female students scarves as head coverings.
  • Jon referred to Dr. Gray as possibly one of God’s army, etc. While consistent with the sharp dualism of WBC theology (elect vs reprobate, sheep vs goats, Good vs Wicked, Church vs Enemies), this still hints at a category for the more trustworthy or fair-minded non-elect.
  • A picket to KC with my students was canceled, they said, so as to avoid risk to the students. To be sure, WBC cooperates with the policy to ensure their safety at pickets. But it’s uncommon for them to assert or even communicate that they made a change for the sake of outsiders.
    • In its place, two WBCers agreed to an open-ended interview, which lasted 3 hours.

Overall, the evidence strikes me as fairly strong: there is increased trust, openness, and cooperation. It takes two to tango:  folks from both WBC and our Miami team have taken steps and made overtures to improve our personal and working relationships.

Perhaps a foundation is being built, stone by stone, line by line, conversation by conversation, with this strange work, listening to each other. Even if we mess up and fall backward, maybe we can get back on track by not making haste.

 

This blog post is a work-in-progress. It may be edited as we assimilate the data and student reports.

 

Initial Reflection on WBC – Sarah Moore

Having participated in interviews with the Westboro Baptist Church last summer, I am familiar with the type of rhetoric used by the church. As such, I don’t believe that I will have trouble managing my feelings or responsive while on site. Even though I don’t believe in the values of the church, such as their feelings on LGBTQ+ rights, I am willing to listen and consider their perspective on the issue. I believe that there is something valuable in listening to those with which we disagree.

Additionally, I am looking forward to interacting with church members on a more personal basis, as we were able to accomplish last summer. For instance, I had a personal connection with one member of the church, Jonathan Phelps. Jonathan shared a moving story with me about a young girl whom he helped to defend in juvenile court. This girl inspired strong feelings in Jonathan, to the point where he was tearing up. It was a special moment to witness this man feel such a connection to a girl outside of his church community, though the stated values of the church may discourage this type of interaction.

Furthermore, I am excited to learn more about the church members through interviews, especially considering that I am creating my own research project for our visit this summer. I hope to learn more about the interactions between church members and their young children, looking at how children grow and learn within the church. While I understand that this line of research may be greeted with scrutiny or even hostility, especially considering the touchy subject of children leaving the church, I am interested in seeing the type of responses that church members are willing to share with me. Overall, I am very excited to be going back and having the opportunity to work with these individuals again.

Initial Reflection on WBC – Alex D’Errico-Bronston

Having participated in a week of research last summer, I am not particularly concerned about managing my reactions. Though I personally had visceral reactions to many of their statements and beliefs, I was able to maintain a stoicism about me. Overall, the experience really allowed me to engage with others, who may seem to be a bit difficult, and build a sense of comfort and familiarity.

Looking back, one interview that humanized members of the church for me was with Ben Phelps, who is on the right in the back row of the attached picture below. We had navigated to the topic of the recognizable slogan “God Hates F*gs” and I could feel myself begin to sweat. I became very nervous, as I expected the discussion to be an indirect attack on me and my existence. Although in some ways I felt that it was, Ben seemed to be somewhat respectful in doing so and opened up about his own discomfort with using words that could be perceived as derogatory. I was surprised to see this side of a member of the church, and am grateful to have experienced it.

Looking forward, I have no fears in masking my reactions to various claims made by members of the church. I am a little bit nervous as to whether or not I’ll make a normative claim, but I know with practice, I’ll be able to get back into the swing of things. I’d reiterate what Margaret said, in that if you feel the need to express an opinion that would be normative, do so outside of the premises of the church, the members’ homes, etc. Finally, I’m excited to see interviewees from the last trip, and to get to know the stories of others in the church this time!

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Meet Jael (Phelps) Holroyd

Dr. Gray met Jael on his first visit to Topeka, when she was starting out as a nurse.

He first interviewed her parents and brothers (she was not married at the time). She also helped explain the project to other Westboro Baptist interviewees.

In this clip, Dr. Gray asked about whether she experiences any empathy for her patients.

https://youtu.be/Yoh3QmNctEg

You might compare our conversation with what it is like for her when picketing.

Introducing Shirley Phelps-Roper

Meet Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of WBC founder Pastor Fred Phelps Sr. as well as the former spokeswoman for the church. In this video clip, Shirley is responding to a question from a Miami student about how she responds when people leave the church.

Dr. Gray’s WBC blog at Quora

Listening to 3rd generation WBC’ers

For a few years, Dr. Gray wrote posts about Westboro Baptist Church on the Q&A website Quora. A few examples:

How does the Westboro Baptist Church think they’re doing good?

Does the Westboro Baptist Church have any redeeming qualities?

What is it like to meet Fred Phelps in real life?

What does it feel like to be part of the Westboro Baptist Church or know somebody who is part of the WBC?

Do Christian theologians think Fred Phelps will go to heaven or hell?

Will Fred Phelps’ funeral be picketed? Have the funerals of other members of WBC been picketed?

Why is the Westboro Baptist Church so hyper-focused on homosexuality as the crux of its doctrine, protesting, and picketing?

What are the third-generation Phelps family members like in person?

What do you think about Planting Peace’s choice to buy a house opposite Westboro Baptist Church?

Have you, or anyone you know, ever verbally engaged a member or members of the Westboro Baptist Church during a picketing of theirs?

How did the Westboro Baptist Church come to choose Kabel Ultra as the typeface for their protest signs?

Please let us know if you would like more information about one of these posts, if you notice any mistakes, or if you have your questions about WBC.