With groups as controversial as Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), it can be easy to focus solely on divisive beliefs. WBC members are known to the general public for sharing controversial messages about God and the LGBTQ+ community. Despite this, WBC members’ vulnerability and openness in over a decade of interviews with Empathy and the Religious “Enemy” (ERE) has allowed our team to access a uniquely human perspective on their lived experiences. In Kathy and Shirley Phelps’ interview in the summer of 2022, both sisters openly reflect on personal memories of their late mother (Marge Phelps, wife to WBC founder, Pastor Fred Phelps Sr.), sharing their emotional experience caring for her during her last few months. I was surprised to see them become deeply emotional throughout the conversation, describing shockingly relatable experiences.
Though many people take on a caretaker role for an elderly parent at some point in their lives, it is seldom discussed in casual conversation due to the sensitive nature of the subject. I would have expected Kathy and Shirley to deflect such emotionally probing topics and avoid talking about personal matters. However, they willingly opened up about their own experiences caring for their mother as she grew older. These women demonstrated vulnerability, not just with each other, but also with the interviewers. The majority of their personal memories were noticeably intertwined with religion. For example, when talking about her mother’s fading memory, Shirley highlights the fact that even when she forgot other things such as the names of her grandchildren, she always remembered every detail about scripture. Similarly, Kathy mentions that she read to her mother during the last few days, specifically passages from the Bible “that would comfort her”. Later, Shirley talks about a scripture app she used to share with her mom, sharing that she can no longer use this specific app because it makes her feel too sad.
These repetitive mentions of scripture demonstrate the value placed upon religion by Shirley and her mother, especially given that her mother’s longest memories were in regards to religious beliefs. Other memories shared also strongly highlight the importance of family in their lives. Despite the underlying sadness in the conversation tone during this interview, Shirley maintained a mood of positivity, especially when discussing how helpful it was to have all of the family members working together. She described the various ways her sisters helped, such as with her mother’s meal planning and nutrition. It is clear that her sisters continue to provide her a strong support system and community.
I found it especially moving when ERE team member, Jason, shared his own personal story relating to caring for his father, reflecting on a similar memory he remembered when speaking with Kathy and Shirley. Hearing Jason’s memory, Jason, Shirley, and Kathy collectively reflect upon the responsibilities of caring for a parent who is becoming forgetful, seeming to bond over their experiences of this stressful yet common life event. When I was reviewing the footage of this interview, I was moved by the personal connection that this emotional discussion led to, thanks to Kathy and Shirley’s vulnerability and willingness to open up. I found myself personally relating to the emotions they felt as I reflected on my own aging family members, and was surprised to find myself relating so deeply to their experiences. Scott, another ERE team member, recalled how Shirley’s vulnerability made him feel comfortable about opening up about his own feelings during the conversation. When asked about this specific moment months later, he shared, “Because she had already talked about her own experiences, it made it a lot easier for me to tell her a bit about some of the hardships I had gone through with my own mother. When Shirley and Kathy decided to take on the role of opening up emotionally in the discussion, it made it easier for everyone else to do the same!”
Kathy and Shirley were physically moved during the interview, as their voices broke up and tears were shed while they attempted to put their feelings into words. They clearly reflected deeply in order to answer our questions with great consideration, as evidenced by long pauses before responding to questions and pensive facial expressions.
Yet Differences in Kathy and Shirley’s personalities were exhibited through different behaviors throughout the interview. Notably, they demonstrated by varying ways of managing the discomfort in emotional reflection. Kathy continuously played with her hands, exhibiting anxious behaviors as the conversation progressed to a deeper emotional level. She teared up when recalling how she was separated from her mother for a period of time, struggling to find words to express her emotions until she simply stated, “I mainly cry because I miss her”. While this emotional discussion seemed to make Kathy a little bit uncomfortable, she did not deflect questions and instead openly expresses her emotions. Kathy remained quieter throughout the interview, yet Shirley rarely held back when she had thoughts to share. Shirley also became emotional, seen when she too teared up, but she lightened the mood through humor. Speaking to both parents’ passing, she joked, “Now I’m an orphan. I’m an old orphan, but I’m an orphan”. The use of humor may demonstrate her comfort in the interview environment, but could indicate a strategy to distract from the sadness that she feels, as she appeared quickly ready to switch conversation topics as soon as she is able to. Another ERE team member, Annalise, described her own reflection to the emotions expressed in this interview – “I completely understand that caretaking is a gratifying and healing, yet frustrating and painful experience. It is a hard adjustment when the person who used to take care of you is now the one being taken care of, and there’s a mixture of emotions involved. In that way I think it was easy for me to relate to Shirley and Kathy’s feelings, because they are complex and often indescribable, and so is a lot of life.”
Groups may be dehumanized when their emotions are not acknowledged, such as is often seen in the case of the WBC. While it can be much easier to separate yourself from people that you refuse to relate to in any way, this leads to a divisive culture that will ultimately only become further polarized. Practicing critical distance in situations such as interviewing the WBC members allows our team to have productive and insightful conversations. By approaching subjects from a non-judgemental and academic standpoint, we are able to facilitate a conversation in which our team can focus on lived experiences rather than controversial theologies. Interacting with people on an emotional level can be an excellent exercise in empathy and will help bridge the gap between people with different views. It is inevitable that groups of people will disagree on values and beliefs, but connecting with others in a way that reveals their emotional vulnerability may reduce hostility and result in an overall more empathic environment.
By Emily Ennis, intern, Miami University